When is a dog old enough to run in the open class

Posted by: Paul Thurmond

When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 12:42 PM

I'm looking at buying a 4 month old dog that is lightly started. I would like to run her at kingston on the 8th. I'm just putting this out there to get some opinions. Should I run her now or not. Would running her with the older more experienced dogs hurt or help. Just getting back into this, I have forgot alot of what I used to know. I guess they are right when they say getting old is a female dog. Let me know what you guys have to say.


Paul Thurmond (Longbow)
Posted by: RICK TAYLOR

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 12:55 PM

if ur talking about running the dog in a trial i wouldnt dog that young needs only ran with another dog or felleow pup so it can get plenty of rabbit smeell on its own instead of haveing to just chase other dogs for it.learning bad habits along the way..
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 02:01 PM

I agree with Rick. He or she is still to young. They will be running more dog than rabbit. It can cause a dog to really get messed up. Let her get 4 to 5 months with some young dogs and even run her with a older dog from time to time. Solo her let her gain condifience. Just my thoughs
Posted by: Josh Jones

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 02:16 PM

I don't tbink you should run one until about a year, but it really depends on the dog. I have talked to a bunch of people who won't trail one until they are two years. A dog really needs to be good on their own or they will get messed up trying to cheat and keep up with the experienced dogs.
Posted by: MDK BEAGLES

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 03:20 PM

i agree that is way to young to trial a dog i would wait til it is over a year old because you can really hurt a dog by trialing it before it is ready
Posted by: leo simmons

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 03:24 PM

i agree i usal wait until they are 18 months to 2 years old befor i put them in trials .but you will sure be welcome at the kingston hunt.where are you located.if you need drections or anthing just give me a call 810-392-2613.yours in beagleing leo

God bless
Posted by: Woodine

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 03:51 PM

I've read some of your post and know by them you are anxious to get into field trialing. However, if you have a good pup you don't want to do anything to "blow" this pup up. Wait and have patience. Time flies and the pup is getting older everyday. I suggest you go to some field trials and see what the competition will be for when this pups is mature in its running and can be entered and compete.
Once you blow one up, I don't know anything that can be done to undo the damage.
A competitive young dog knows when it is getting beat. That is when they learn to cheat.
Posted by: Danny King

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 07:50 PM

you should look into buying a good started dog to run in the trial plus a pup then you can have the best of both worlds
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 09:14 PM

My opinion..it is all in the breeding.My pups start at 2 to 4 months and some have been campaigned in trials at 4 months and done well,others do very well in competition by 6 months on.If a hound is not running a rabbit well at a year old it does not eat here or kenneled here,my breeding or other bloodlines i may chose to buy to see if they can complement my breeding program..Also if i can burn a pup out by putting to much pressure on it i have made a mistake somewhere in my breeding program..TY
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 10:13 PM

Rebel you are the man, I guess we need to take lesson from you. Dogs starting a 2 months old, learning how to breed like you. I mean dan you got it all. Great breed program rabbit within walking distance, dogs kicking but in field trial at 4 months old. What do you not have. I will say this. I seen some of the best breeder in the ARHA. None of the come on here and talk about their program, Terry Sudduth, Tony Dickerson, Phil and Jim Bryum, Matt Glosmiki, Wilkerson, and so on and so on. Are you trying to get on here and bost about you dogs because it sure sound like it. I don't know you and I sure you have good intention but man you sure talk about your dogs and breeding alot. I never seen you at a field trial or can't remember you. I will never get on here and tell you how good my dogs are. I'm not saying you don't have good dogs but quit bragging.
Posted by: RICK TAYLOR

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 11:11 PM

ITS HURT HIM TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND HE WONT LEARN FROM IT.rebel has produced soem good dogs ..need to let the mag do the brag for ya tho rebel. if its in the mags then u did it and everybody seen it.i dont trial much but have success when i go usually but if i go aroung tooting my own horn i become a nussense [i guess that how u spell it lol ] let others brag for u and u can be really proud and let the hounds produce and it will all speak for thereself.
Posted by: Scott Johnson MI

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 11:18 PM

Paul, I would not reccomend pushing that pup. At your pups age they are completely vulnerable to what ever that pack decides to do on that given day. This could be a good thing or not. Have you thought about if that cast decides to run off game such as a deer ect.. Your pup probaly will not get much scent on a rabbit in that pack especially this time of year, but on a full blown speed beef chase (Mr. Whitetail) he's gonna love that! Heck he'll probaly even pick up a few checks on that line. All kidding aside Paul, it's just to risky running that pup now. Solo him if he can run a line by himself. Watch for signs of too much independence, if this happens throw a old dog in with him to keep that pack mentality strong. He will need all these skills to perform in P.P. See how that dog looks at 1.5-2 yrs of age as Leo said. That old Kentucky rabbit hunter knows a few things about these trials. Just have patience and keep that dog in the field, you can't go wrong if you do both of those!
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/04/08 11:45 PM

Shawn..have you not heard of FST-Track Lil Jessie??she was produced here at my kennel and prior to her accomplishments,Now an FC in PP pack with only a few points being an FC in LP and bench..even at 4 months old this girl was pounding rabbits in the wild and on the ARHA circuit and if she had been campaigned hard would have made FC prior to a year old,she is a 2008 derby by AKC standards and will not be two years old till 7/02/08 and her litter mates are doing just as well.
I do talk about my hounds and my breeding program and my facilities and mighty proud of my accomplishments in all and it has taken me many years,many dollars and lot of disappointments and failures to get things to where i have them today and at 65,near 66 years old,and been in hounds all my life and i still am not where i would like to be and i still feel there is better than what i have in my kennels,guess i am the type never to be satisfied and always doing my best to improve.
Daniel Hill said it well..You ain't bragging if you can prove it..I think FAST_TRAC's Lil Jessie and her litter mates have proven what i have in my kennel and my breeding program and there are others..
Daniel Hill advertised what he was looking for and i responded to that add and told him i had what he was searching for,below will prove if i was right or wrong and if i was bragging or stating facts?? Have a great day.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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For those that wish you can view FST_TRAC's Lil Jessie's pedigree on this site http://www.freewebs.com/fsttrackennels/tributetojessie.htm

Tribute to FST TRAC'S LIL JESSIE
This page is a Tribute to my favorite hound and the one i think has showed she is the real deal in my kennel.Her name is FST TRAC'S LIL JESSIE. Jessie has had a hard road to run to make it to a champion. At four months she was trialed at a progressive pack hunt and placed 8th at a pp hunt and i was proud of her so i posted it on the beagle boards, well then a lot of people started bad mouthing her and me saying she was no good or i was buddy judged or i must not have anything in my kennel if a pup can beat them. Well at 5months she placed 10th in Alabama in little pack. Then the people kept on so she went on to get a win in mcminnville Tn little pack hunt at 7months and then a 8th at north Carolina little pack hunt against 50 hounds then she went on to get a 2nd in South Carolina at a little pack hunt all by the time she was 9 months old. Then she took a 2nd at a pp hunt and a 4th the following weekend at another pp hunt then she took a win on 1-26-08 to give her the points and the win she needed to be a pp rabbit champion at 18 months old. What a dog she is. She has proved to me she can take the pressure and do good. She is been trialed 9 times and placed in 8 of the 9 not too bad for a gyp. She has ran in all of these states so far, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, New York, and even in Canada. A lot of people have seen this Lil bluetick run and was impressed by the way she ran, a lot of people told me after seeing her run she was a lot more than i expected to see for sure.And so i am giving her, her own page on my site for she has earned it in my eyes anyway here are some pics i would like to share with everyone of her and me and our travels all over as she competed to prove to the world she was a great hound and not just all talk she done all my talking for me and i have a mantle full of trophies to prove it LOL hope yall enjoy the pics

Posted by: Willow Creek Kennel

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 12:22 AM

Rebel, Are you the same Rebel that got banned from the American Beagler board????
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 12:28 AM

American Beagler Board??I can't find that board listed,do you have the link??TY
Posted by: Willow Creek Kennel

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 12:53 AM

http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/index.php
Posted by: Lance

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open cl - 02/05/08 12:56 AM

 Originally Posted By: REBEL
My opinion..it is all in the breeding.My pups start at 2 to 4 months and some have been campaigned in trials at 4 months and done well,others do very well in competition by 6 months on.


I will have to say ol' boy.....your full of $hit!
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 01:09 AM

10-4 Rebel well I call it bragging. You call it what you want, I will say this I promise if that dog is all you say it is in little pack. I am a PP judge and if she get judge by the book she WILL NOT say on the ground. LP does to much swinging and Reaching most will not say in the Check area. Yes you can take a dog and run it in both format, but My though is if it excell in one it will not in the other that why we have different formats. Just because she placed in Akc doesn't make her any better. I have a Male that is 1 1/2 old that I breed myself that lack just a few points being a champ, he will not see another trial for a while because he is not good enought to be what I call a Champ. I not Knocking your dogs but you act like she is god gift to beagle. We all get that special dog sometime or another good for you that you breed and got what you were look for. I just noticed that all of a sudden you go from LP board to PP board and you start bragging I don't belive in bragging. Their are some big names in PP that never get on here and say the thing you said. I wish you could bring her to the US and we all could she how good she is. Other peolpe will brag if the dogs are good all you have to do then is seat back and smile. That how I think the great dog get their reconition.
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 01:12 AM

Can anyone tell me how may people starts dogs a 2 months old. I'm sure other people do I just would like to see how may. Most people that I take my dogs to to start them tell me to wait til at LEASE 5 Month old.
Posted by: Scott Johnson MI

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 01:17 AM

Can we please remember the original post is what sounds like a new or un-experienced houndsmen who may potentially run in the trials. Lets exhibit our good sportsmanship and set a good example.
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open cl - 02/05/08 01:26 AM

SHANNON HOWARD..I have never been on that board previously but think you for the link.I did go to the link and did a search but only REBEL indicated there was a hound..TY..Have a good day.
Lance i was attempting to respond to the persons question as to when a dog was old enough to run in the open class of an ARHA event,which there is no age minimum nor maxium,and i was giving my opinions and the facts of what a young hound had accomplished from my breeding practices from my kennel,nothing more,nothing less..and i have always maintained that breeding is 85% or more of a hounds potential and how it turns out as a rabbit hound and i breed accordingly and so far it has served me well..TY
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 01:35 AM

Scott..great advice..but first let me say to Shawn....FST_TRAC's Lil Jessie has never been in an AKC trail she just recently made PP Champion and very close to being a double Champion LP and PP and Bench and it all started at the young age of 4 months,she is not a one of a kind but a one of a kind breeding.Now lets get back to the subject matter at hand..TY
Posted by: shawdog

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 01:44 AM

Paul,
First of all, Welcome to Progressive Pack. Second and most important of anything you may read on this site, BE PATIENT !!!
I have owned and raised beagles for nearly 15 years and I field trialed hard for about 8 years. I have owned some awesome hounds in my time and developed my kennels to produce dogs that would start and be running on it's on by 4 months. I listened to the old timers, for a long time, then decided I would try what others had done or was doing. I had a little female, " Shawdog's Midnight Lexus", who was doing things I had never seen before in a 4-5 month old pup.I took her to her first trial @ 7 mths. and she placed 9th out of about 25-30 hounds. The second hunt 7th, and then a couple other hunts. Then we had the break during the summer months for a couple of months. After we started back up, the first hunt we went to, she minused out for opening & not producing. OK , bad scent day. The next hunt 2 minuses for O.N.P. and 3rd minus for reaching. It only got worse. By the time she reached 11 months old , she had became so competitive, and wasn't mature enough to handle it. she had became a complete idiot, and had to leave my kennels.
From that point on, I would not trial a dog until it was at least 18 mths. Most of them were 2 yrs. What has always and I emphasize ALWAYS worked for me, was after the dog was started, I would run it with a experienced older dog that it could keep up with and out foot it if he/she wanted to. Then, SOLO....SOLO...SOLO.. that dog until it became totally confident and could circle a rabbit back to the jump with no help. It sometimes get's boring being out with only one dog, but the enjoyment of winning a field trial is always rewarding. I personally feel like a dog CANNOT reach it's full potential if it's not running at least 3-5 times a week. Be selective with whom you run with also. If you run with people who don't care what the dogs are doing or running as long as the sweet sound of "BEAGLE BLUEGRASS", can be heard, your dogs will develope bad habits.
If you can't wait on your pup to grow up and mature into it's fullest potential , then I highly recommend you finding a hound that is already 2-3 yrs. old that can provide you the enjoyment you are looking for. What's even more satisfying is when YOU raise a pup , start it, and it becomes Champion. Remember, it takes time. Give your hounds all the time they deserve, and they will give back all they can. Good Luck
Shawdog
Posted by: Paul Thurmond

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:31 AM

Whoa! Hey Guys, I didn't start this post to make it a contest on whose Johnson is bigger. I wish I would have waited till I actually bought the dog before I posted. When I saw the dog {she is 5 months old} I knew that she was waaaaaaaaaay to young to trial. But I still bought her, { probably paid to much and that is no disrespect to the breeder} but I have a HUGE soft spot for lemon/whites. She seems to be a good dog and the wife and daughter fell in love with her at first sight. I talked to the breeder and told him I want to handle one of his dogs at the next trial and he said ok. Your right I am chomping at the bit to trial. I'm not here to set the world on fire. I just like being around beaglers. You people in PP are some of the nicest people that I have met and it just makes me want to get going that much more.

As for commenting on other peoples dogs and kennels and not believing them, thats fine. But I feel you shouldn't air it out on the board. Thats what PM's are for. Thats what I thought was great about the trial I went to. There was a little bit of ego, which is to be expected. But it was mostly kept in check. So I am sorry that the newbie stirred up the pot.

I have a few leads on some started dogs but nothing I feel solid about. So if any of you have a started,solid, dog you are looking to sell let me know. Especially if she is lemon/white!



Paul Thurmond (Longbow)
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:59 AM

Sorry Paul you are right. Hey just enjoy you lemon and white. My wife has a soft spot for Red dogs so I understand, but what I said started on a earlyer post. I should of just keep to myself. Hope you have may more trial and hope you find you a dog to trial. Good luck.
Posted by: ohno

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 03:29 AM

I have to disagree on the fact that dogs cant run PP and LP by the books and be judged right doing it. You yourself have judged a dog that is PP and LP champ and left him on the ground and probably even brought him back before. I myself have a dog that is a dual champ. I know you and Dennis don't like the fact that LP dogs are run in PP, but some dogs can do it and should be rewarded fairly for it, not just left unscored for susposedly "running to much rabbit". Not all LP dogs are swingers and skirters. Some can run the line with awesome speed and do it right. I've seen many times a dog doing just that leave a pack sittin, and not be scored because he is "runnin to much rabbit". Not trying to stir, just my opinion. Todd Yates
Posted by: RICK TAYLOR

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 03:30 AM

he is the same rebel that has been banned for severla other boards...he can be a very nice guy and he can be ......... paul u listen to most on here u'll do well ..
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 05:35 AM

Ok let me put this a little more plainly. Most of the time LP dogs will minus out in PP. For the record my judging and Dennis Judging is TOTALY different. I will let them get a little ruffer than Dennis will. NO I don't like the fact LP dogs are running in PP pack if that was the case let just do away with both format and make it one. I may of brought you back a winner and left you on the ground, but I like a fast dog and one that run the front. I take nothing away from little pack but by god from what I've seen they are ruff, they swing, they skirt, they slip the line. That what I've seen and you will never change my mind about it. I chase dogs for hours. I'm not new at this. I don't have great dogs but I dan sure have judge them. I know what pp is all about. I like pp if not I would run LP. I'm far from perfect. If I let a LP/PP dog win that day hat off great job he did it right, but for the most part LP belong in LP and PP belongs in PP and that HOW I FEEL. Don't really care if you like it or not. I'm NOT going to change. I judge how I feel is right by the book and nothing going to change that.
Posted by: Dennis McCaig

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:24 PM

TODD WHY DID YOU BRING MY NAME INTO THIS CONVERSATION, I HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS POST AND I WASN'T GOING TO UNTIL NOW, I DON'T CARE IF YOU RUN A MONTH OLD PUP OR A TEN YEAR OLD DOG IF IT DOES GOOD FIND I WILL CALL IT LIKE I SEE IT ASK CHAD CORDELL, RICKY HAYES, AND RICHARD SMITH THEY CERIFIED A HOUND FOR PP CHAMPION AT 7 MONTHS AND 16 DAYS OLD FOR ME AT YOUR CLUB,SO PLEASE LEAVE ME OUT OF THIS CONVERSATION AND IF I DIDN'T LIKE LP HOUNDS I WOULDN'T COME TO NEELEYVILLE TO RUN AGAINST THEM ALWAYS REMEMBER RUN WHAT YOU LIKE FIND AND IF IT STAYS ON THE GROUND THAT IS EVEN BETTER
Posted by: Josh Jones

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:34 PM

Mr Rebel. I would love to see a 2 month old running a rabbit. I mean that is 8 weeks. I usually barely have them off the mother. Straight from the tit to a rabbit. I love it! I have heard some blow hards but that is funny. Hats off to you if you can do it. Of course I told my dad he was crazy when he told me his 4 month old pup could solo a rabbit for hours. Well I ate some crow on that one.
Josh
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:40 PM

SORRY LONGBOW..Just got to get this one out of my craw.
Rick Taylor..you care to name those boards,i am suposely ban from or have been ban from?and how does someone being ban have to do with this topic and subject matter?Rick Taylor trying to cast a shadow against another beagler is more your topic but i have not noticed a section dedicated to that on this board.May i suggest you stick to the topic and not continue your normal self by attempting to build your self up by tearing another down,get a life.
I came on here giving my opinion if a dog 4 months old could compete in a trial and i just happened to have produced one that was competing at that age and prior to a year old was in the top 100 hounds in ARHA and her litter mates are just as good as she,only making an attempt to show breeding is a very important part of the sport of beagling and if in anyway i can help or assist another i stand ready to do so.
Here at Cherokee Beagle Club we hope to set the pattern for other clubs by judging the best hound on the ground for that particular day and it does not matter what format it has been in before or after.In 2008 we have only requested to hold LP trials but i may prior to end of 2008 to also include a few PP trials and in 2009 we will sponsor both,like many other ARHA clubs already do.I am doing all i can to promote a true rabbit hound that can do it in the field,in trials and on the bench and by chatering a club to promote such,and in my opinion,ARHA is the association/organization that does that better than any other concerning beagles.So bring your LP,PP,BP etc and be confidant the best hound will be the winner when the dust settles here at Cherokee Beagle Club..
Posted by: MDK BEAGLES

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 02:48 PM

there is noway a lp dog should make pp champ in anyway shape or form if it did it was never judged right that is why there are different formats
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 03:37 PM

A 80pt deficit to come back and win. On her way to winning she took 16 consecutive checks on the hounds..
This is a Champion no matter the formate,she is the real deal!!

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=111923&p=3&topicID=15166922
Posted by: Danny King

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 07:22 PM

well guys i can honestly say i started a dog at 2 months old and was shooting rabbits over her. she was placing consistently in pp going to the final round and everything by 10 months old im not bragging or nothing im just putting that in there. also i seen a dog get champed out at 7 months old in pp dog wasnt worth a shit it got its win by a deer run that the dog wouldnt cross water thats the only reason that dog was champed out. well back to my dog cant show you how she ran because shes dead now do to hit by a car but its the only dog i had and i had all the free time in the world. if i had to do it again i would not have entered her in the trials till later on in her life.
Danny King
Posted by: jdwiley

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 08:10 PM

Rebel.Aka.yankee,aka.Ty,Aka.Harrell. Be carefull, this might be the only board left!
Posted by: Willow Creek Kennel

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 09:10 PM

I thought i had heard those same old stories before on other boards REBEL!!
There is a reason you have been banned from other sites. You may want to tone it down.
Placing a 4mnth old pup 8th out of 15 dogs isnt that hard all you need is a 3rd in your cast.
So i see no reason to get on here and brag about your breeding program.If thats all you got, you got a long way to go.
Posted by: RICK TAYLOR

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 09:11 PM

rho is one tab is another southern beaglers is another and soon wil,be this one i would bet lol. not trying to put u down reb u do a great job of blowing ur own foot off nobody else needs to help ya . i wish u would change..ur strating some trials and raseing some good dogs ,, now if u could fix ur attitude u could be a big assest to beagleing world.good luck with that and i'll pray for ur help as well.
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 10:03 PM

So are we here to see who all has been ban from various boards??Y'all have a problem with me,than send me a PM or call me 256-422-5224.This board is not the place,this board is here for all to gain knowledge about hounds and ARHA events..I have not said a thing about anyones hounds and than Rick felt it his duty to do his best at discriminating against me,which he has a track record of doing so towards other as well..Like i stated previously,those that have hounds(Rabbit Hounds) and knowledge to share generally do so in an effort to help others and those that don't,do their best to tear down and destroy those that do..Rick Taylor stick to the subject at hand and you just might save some face on the few boards you are allowed on,just cause your best hounds were beaten at your club by Lil Jessie is no reason to drag others away from the purpose of this thread,and don't play the good guy bad guy thing,it don't work for you anymore.
Anyone that feels they have hounds worthy of the challenge can meet me and my hounds in Snead this coming Saturday or any other ARHA trial.I am not saying i have the best but i support the best organization that sponsors the best format to select the best..
I apologize to all for others taking this thread out of its context and purpose,but there is always a few that can't stand someone hounds beating theirs(especially if it came from my kennel) and Lil Jessie,Blaze and Nemo,all litter mates,has proven in the field and in competition they can run and win with the best..
Posted by: Shawn Benefield

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/05/08 10:07 PM

Well ok so some pups start at 2 months. I understand. It not the fact of how old the dog is, it the bragging I don't understand.
Posted by: ohno

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/06/08 02:29 AM

Dennis, I wasn't bad mouthing you, I was simply stating that I know you don't like to see dogs running in both formats. The reason I mentioned your name was because of the recent thread where you and shawn were messin with clay and the others. You were talkin about guys runnin rough LP dogs, were you not. I was simply stating that some dogs CAN run both and do it right. I just said to you at Gosnell that I don't agree with bringing the ROUGH Lp dogs, but not all are rough. I have told Chad that more than once about a couple of his dogs. And Mike, you obviously don't know much about LP other than what you have heard. Not ALL LP champs are rough. If you have a fast cleaner running dog, they will clean up the rougher dogs to win. Some aren't even fast and do it. Lynn Perkins' Buzzsaw dog is a 6 out of 10 at the most and tears it up in the Grand Champion class because he never misses a beat and is a jump machine. But I didn't come on here to fight, just stating my opinion just like everyone else.
Posted by: Shawn Ohlinger

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 02:58 AM

 Originally Posted By: REBEL
Shawn..have you not heard of FST-Track Lil Jessie??she was produced here at my kennel and prior to her accomplishments,Now an FC in PP pack with only a few points being an FC in LP and bench..even at 4 months old this girl was pounding rabbits in the wild and on the ARHA circuit and if she had been campaigned hard would have made FC prior to a year old,she is a 2008 derby by AKC standards and will not be two years old till 7/02/08 and her litter mates are doing just as well.




ohh boii Rebel forgive me for chimeing in but once again i just can't help but waste my time replying to yet another one of you're silly posts. It's really a shame that people who buy a dog from have to deal with you, and you're antics of takeing credit for what is "their" dog no longer you're dog. The way i see any dog that leaves you're place is better off considering you've run dogs into heat strokes on average 2 pups survive out of you're litters and you're highly self acclaimed facilities are just a compromise for you're lack of personal care you give to you're dogs. Do they even get fed real dog food on a regular basis ? You are CONSTANTLY takeing the spotlight for Jessie's sucess when you have had nothing to do with this pup since 6 weeks of age. Aside from Jessie what other dogs out of you're entire kennel have accomplished anything ???? How many of her littermates have shared even close to the same sucess as Jessie ? NONE. Who on earth would ever buy a dog from you with you takeing all the credit for the dogs that you no longer own. It would be in you're best interest to give those dogs to Daniel to let him raise them the way they need to be raised to be successful in field trials. Because you obviously are not capable of doing so ? With all you're time and experience in beagles what have you accomplished ? I only know of 1 single dog that has championed out that has had anything to do with you and that would be Jessie. You have pretty much bragged on this dog soo much now it will be hard for her to accomplish anything with the self proclaimed status you have put her in. Everyone will know the dog now and chances are people will gun for her. I personaly don't know how Daniel can keep his piece of mind out these speeches you type out. You have thrown his name out and given him unwanted attention. Makeing him look bad with yourself. I would hate to be in his position. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself on this post but you've definitley given him a repuation of being involved with you which propably does not reflect well on him. Daniel is a stand up guy and a very good guy to have you're side but you've definitely taken advantage of that. He has some dogs in his kennel that are every bit as tough as jessie or have the potential of being even better in my opinion. That have nothing to do with you're "breeding program" if there any such programing behind it. In you're 30+ years of beagleing you have produced 1 arha progressive pack champion with 15 points from lp champion and a bench champion. Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh wait someone else raised and trained that dog for you. congratulations Daniel instead. Yes my dogs where present at the pp trial jessie championed out at and yes she beat 2 of my 7 dogs. Proveing to me she is a nice dog. So don't try to take it there bud I was just happy my lap dogs stayed down the whole hour in a progressive pack trial. Seeing how that was there first one. Heck i even placed a dog in some magic way of luck. Maybe in another 30 years you can have 2 dogs make champion from you're club. I can think of guys who have spent alot less time in beagles that have a much more impressive track record of champion dogs, and many people win BIG hunts every year. In fact somebody wins every big hunt every year. boy i hate to see what happens if Daniel won a big hunt with Jessie Jeez you'd prbly be chargeing them to breed to Daniels dog or even trying to take a double fee for a pup once they buy it from Daniel you'd prbly want them to buy it off you as well. boy i hope not but the way you talk that is just my impression. Have a good day Rebel. A.r.h.a should thank you i guess b/c it is you're posting that made me decide to join this board and make a post so they gained one more board user thanks to you man you better the world every day in someway don't you ?
Posted by: Shawn Ohlinger

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 03:21 AM

Just to clear a few things up for you all knowing Harrel/Rebel/yankee/ty/God only knows how many names you have used. FC's are ONLY produced in A.K.C. the 2nd P in PP already stand for pack so there is no need to put pp pack. As PP stands for Progressive Pack. So you are calling FC's A.R.H.A Progressive Pack Pack Field Champions when they are really Progressive Pack Rabbit Champions. Maybe you can take that to you vast knowledge of A.R.H.A at you're top notch A.R.H.A club. I'd hate to see you make an FC at a Little Pack Rabbit event.
Posted by: BrewerMoMo

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 03:27 AM

Rebel Wrote'' Shawn..have you not heard of FST-Track Lil Jessie??she was produced here at my kennel and prior to her accomplishments,Now an FC in PP pack with only a few points being an FC in LP and bench..''
I have only heard of this dog from Daniel.Must have great potential to do what it has done at such a young age, but if a dog that age is all you got to brag about..(no offense) I think you should wait and see what it is when it reaches it's prime. I doubt as many people as you seem to think have ever heard of Jessie. Daniel and his father spent alot of time and money looking for the right dogs and Daniel seems to think highley of the pup he got from you (Jessie), so im sure its a great pup!
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 05:33 PM

oh boii Rebel forgive me for chimeing in but once again i just can't help but waste my time replying to yet another one of you're silly posts. It's really a shame that people who buy a dog from have to deal with you, and you're antics of taking credit for what is "their" dog no longer you're dog. The way i see any dog that leaves you're place is better off considering you've run dogs into heat strokes(never had a pup or hound over come by heat strokes,you have never been to my facilities,so have no knowledge of my facilities but the ARHA representatives have felt they were extra nice and they are also State of Alabama approved)on average 2 pups survive out of you're litters and you're highly self acclaimed facilities are just a compromise for you're lack of personal care you give to you're dogs.(Still not sure where you are obtaining your information but you have been very much misinformed,i think it may pay you to visit my facilities or check with AKC on how many litters i have registered and how many live past a certain age)Do they even get fed real dog food on a regular basis ?(Maybe you should ask Daniel Hill about their diet,he feed the same diet as i cause i supplied him the same food as my hounds eat) You are CONSTANTLY taking the spotlight for Jessie's success when you have had nothing to do with this pup since 6 weeks of age.(Wrong again she was stared and ran for Daniel Hill when he came here to buy her) Aside from Jessie what other dogs out of you're entire kennel have accomplished anything ????(Blue Blaze has a win in PP and if not badly mistaken Jessie came in second that day at the trial) How many of her littermates have shared even close to the same success as Jessie ?(Blaze and Nemo and Blaze according to Daniel Hill AKA FST_TRAC is the best hound out of the litter and Nemo is just as good as either one and by the way four was born in that litter and four live to past a year old and Bonnie die app 6 month ago) NONE.(ALL!!) Who on earth would ever buy a dog from you with you taking all the credit for the dogs that you no longer own. It would be in you're best interest to give those dogs to Daniel to let him raise them the way they need to be raised to be successful in field trials. Because you obviously are not capable of doing so ? With all you're time and experience in beagles what have you accomplished ? I only know of 1 single dog that has championed out that has had anything to do with you and that would be Jessie.(Without myself and Chris Spall Jessie nor any other of the same cross would exist today and without me responding to an add Daniel Hill placed looking for a hound,Daniel Hill would not have Jessie today) You have pretty much bragged on this dog too much now it will be hard for her to accomplish anything with the self proclaimed status you have put her in. Everyone will know the dog now and chances are people will gun for her.(She has been gunned for from day one,she will make,i promise you that,she has the breeding and in that breeding the heart) I personally don't know how Daniel can keep his piece of mind out these speeches you type out. You have thrown his name out and given him unwanted attention. Making him look bad with yourself.(i have keep Daniel informed of what i type,we do talk and quite often and from what you have to say obviously you and he does not?) I would hate to be in his position. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself on this post but you've definitely given him a reputation of being involved with you which probably does not reflect well on him. Daniel is a stand up guy and a very good guy to have you're side but you've definitely taken advantage of that. He has some dogs in his kennel that are every bit as tough as Jessie or have the potential of being even better in my opinion. That have nothing to do with you're "breeding program" if there any such programing behind it.(Daniel has Jessie and one litter that traces back to my hounds) In you're 30+ years of beagling you have produced 1 arha progressive pack champion with 15 points from lp champion and a bench champion. Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh wait someone else raised and trained that dog for you.(Jessie was well started and only need tracks when she left my kennel and i have a video to prove it,you info is way off base) congratulations Daniel instead. Yes my dogs where present at the pp trial Jessie championed out at and yes she beat 2 of my 7 dogs. Proving to me she is a nice dog. So don't try to take it there bud I was just happy my lap dogs stayed down the whole hour in a progressive pack trial. Seeing how that was there first one. Heck i even placed a dog in some magic way of luck. Maybe in another 30 years you can have 2 dogs make champion from you're club. I can think of guys who have spent a lot less time in beagles that have a much more impressive track record of champion dogs, and many people win BIG hunts every year. In fact somebody wins every big hunt every year. boy i hate to see what happens if Daniel won a big hunt with Jessie Jeez you'd probably be charging them to breed to Daniels dog or even trying to take a double fee for a pup once they buy it from Daniel you'd probably want them to buy it off you as well. boy i hope not but the way you talk that is just my impression.(LOL Shawn,i think you need to talk to Daniel and get you notes and composition corrected.Daniel had stated to me my hounds are what he wants to base his hounds and kennel after,if i am wrong he is the one that said it,my advice to you is prior to make such a post and statements you get your facts straight and not attempt to discredit ayone,i have not bashed anyone nor hound nor bloodline,yet as a newbie you want to come on a board and discredit me,may i say,you only discredit your self,by not having facts) Have a good day Rebel. A.r.h.a should thank you i guess b/c it is you're posting that made me decide to join this board and make a post so they gained one more board user thanks to you man you better the world every day in someway don't you? (you got that right,some where some place,a young boy or girl has finished high school,on their way to college and their families are proud of them cause they no long are on drugs or alcohol cause they had the strength inside them to pull out, and in some small way,FRIENDS FOR LIFE,INC,just may have been there for them when no one else was to show them we cared enough to help.I am Founder and President of FRIENDS FOR LIFE,INC and my wife and many volunteers are proud we can help in times of need and each time i pass one of these children,at the mall or on the street,i smile,we stop and talk and i think God i still have my health and mind to continue to help others.I am proud to be part of the sport of beagling,but my real satisfication,is seeing a young adult/teenager,mature into a responsible adult that can contribute to society with the knowledge and want to,to help others that fall to addiction of drugs and alcohol,one child no longer addicted to drugs or alcohol is worth all the effort i will ever contribute to anything in life i shall ever do or accomplish.Thank GOD!!
PS..Shawn Ohlinger,nothing prior to this post has not been directed towards you,my responses in the name of Shawn was directed to Shawn Benefield,but it would seem you took it to be you and by the way..Harrell Whitener is my name "REBEL" is my handle and TY means thank you,never used as a handle nor name..LOL..TY and have a great day...
Posted by: REBEL

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 06:06 PM

To me a beagle that has earned the title of Champion in the field chasing rabbits is an FC and i use it in two distinct ways,one to note a First Class Rabbit Hound and another to note a Field Champion and to me a beagle that has Championed out in any field type trial in any association or organization should be a FIRST CLASS RABBIT HOUND and that is the main reason i organized an ARHA Club and not an AKC Club..TY
Posted by: Paul Thurmond

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 11:06 PM

Man I wish I could retract a post. I just asked a simple question and it was turned into this! Is there anyway I can STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!! Rebel I wish we could all get together and hash this out, but I have a feeling it would end up in a shouting match.

One of two things are certain. Either what Rebel says is the truth or he is a habitual liar. If its the the latter there is nothing you can do about it unless you have cold hard facts because they will just keep spinning the story in their favor. I hope this is no the case. So unless you have cold hard facts let this thread die and do your arguing in a PM.

Paul Thurmond
Posted by: Lance

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/07/08 11:59 PM

Looking at Jesse's pedigree..her bottom side is heavily Jiggs bred. No doubt she could be a real good dog with that breeding.

My question is Harrell...in 30+ years of breeding your own bloodline...have you ever produced any other hounds that have done well in competition?

Just wondering......

Lance McCarthy
Posted by: Josh Jones

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/08/08 02:05 PM

Paul I still don't think I would trial a dog until it was a little closer to a year. Trials are about to die down a little. Use the summer to evaluate your dogs. Next September you'll be ready to make a splash. After all I guess it just depends on the dog when to trial them.
Good luck
Josh
Posted by: Poole Creek Ben

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/08/08 11:50 PM

I think there is really an easy answer to all this. If you have a pack of dogs you use for hunting or trialing and you run your pups with and without the pack, you will know when they are ready to "run with the big dogs". If you run your pup with the pack (or at a trial) and he gets left behind, cheats, or runs with his head up, he's not ready. If you keep running him in that setting you can ruin him. I can think of one virtue to taking them early (in moderation) though. I tried to take some of my dad's 5-6 yr olds that had never been trialed. They were good dogs, but all the strange dogs, people, leashing and unleashing just freaked them out. They were used to us opening the box and running for half a day with the same people and the same dogs. When I started trialing, my pups were 8 months old. I took them a little but tried not to overdo it. Just remember, you are trying to develop the dog, and he may not peak 'til he's 3 yrs old. Give him the best chance you can. If you don't have a pack to run him with, enter him in a trial every 2 or 3 months til you think he's ready. I've got an 8-month old puppy that I will probably take to a LP trial in a couple of weeks. I'll probably stake him out and maybe show him on the bench, but I won't enter him in the hunt because I don't want him picking up any LP habits. He probably won't run LP 'til he's at least 2, but I'd enter him in a PP trial now. (LP is my only choice close to home). My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
Posted by: mad dog kennel

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/10/08 02:17 AM

When someones says they will bring back the BEST DOG does that mean they will follow the rules or bring back the best dog. I have judged and brought back the winner from the rules and it was not the best dog. Becareful about bringing the best dog back and not the winner! I say at least 1 yrs old to run in trials and 2 yrs is always better. Matt Aubrey
Posted by: Scott Johnson MI

Re: When is a dog old enough to run in the open class - 02/10/08 03:15 PM

I can stand up and give a AMEN to that one!!!!