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#23959 - 01/18/12 06:11 PM little pack & progressive pack ?
Buddy WAll Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Oklahoma
i was wondering if these to formats get along or not get along? i have hounds that can run in both formats and enjoy going to both formats. i have concerns with some of the rules with both but over all i can get by that part. i do know if i walkin a progressive pack trial i'm labeled as a little packer right off the bat. now i only run that format in oklahoma so i don't know how it is in other states. i don't know why there would be a reason that i would be labeled at all. they should be judging the dog in the field not the handler. i also know you can go to a little pack hunt and fill the club house up with progressive pack handlers and know one seems to care. i also know that on any given day either hound could out score the other in either format. Just trying to get thoughts from other trialers. So lets here it.

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#23960 - 01/18/12 07:33 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Buddy WAll]
jim tucker Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 27
Loc: south east indiana
I think that they are two total different style of dogs . A good dog for progressive pack is line control ,gear up and gear down when need be on speed, work close in the check,no sirtin,no pullin,no swingin,no slashin,no super hard going type of dog. Little pack wants hard hittin faster the better type of dog. They let a dog get away with less line control,swingin,sirtin,pullin,gettin out of the check ,slashin. I like good clean smooth runnin with fewer the better breakdowns. They little pack dogs that i have been around over run the track way to much and that makes for a lot of breakdowns . I don't see how the two styles can go together. That is why they two different formats and trials. If they went together good there would be no need for two seperate trial formats,one would work well. Just my way of thinkin.

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#23961 - 01/18/12 08:36 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: jim tucker]
Buddy WAll Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Oklahoma
so your telling me just because a dog runs little pack he has all the attributes that you described. i would say that nothing is further from the truth. i do agree there are little pack dogs that run like you describe but not all. alot of little pack trialers have gone to alot tighter line dog that have alot of foot.yes they are fast and may over run but i've seen pp dogs do that. maybe i haven't seen a true pp dog at work. even in the rules it gives the pp dog the chance to go back to point of loss so that tells me that they over run the track. faster dogs do go further when they over run but they get back to point of loss faster as well.

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#23962 - 01/18/12 08:50 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Buddy WAll]
Z Tree Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 294
Loc: West Michigan
It all comes down to the judge. I have seen a judge let a hound run all over the place and swing and skirt and never score a minus. In that case the hound would do good in both formats. If a judge is more conservitive, then the same hound may get picked up. It just depends on how the judge sees it and how he scores it.
The only real diference that I can see is the "minus" in PP that isn't in LP. If judges don't score a minus on a hount commiting a violation, then it might as well be LP.
_________________________
Bradley

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#23963 - 01/18/12 09:04 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Z Tree]
EARL LEASURE Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 187
I have ran in LP and PP with the same hound and he can get it done in both. And a lot of the hounds that I have seen that run in LP around me can run in PP.So why is it that PP guys say LP hounds are to loose and can't run a rabbit? And LP guys say PP hounds are to slow?
_________________________
(BRAISE HILL KENNELS 2012 H.O.F BEAGLER) JUST GOOD OLD RABBIT HOUND'S NUTTEN SPECIAL.





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#23964 - 01/18/12 09:07 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: EARL LEASURE]
Z Tree Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 294
Loc: West Michigan
You are right Earl, plenty of dogs can run in both. It just depends on the conditions, the dog and the judge. I remember you telling me about LP guys breading to Meathead when he ran PP. A dog that hunts, hunts.
_________________________
Bradley

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#23965 - 01/18/12 11:46 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Z Tree]
andy_ike Offline
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: Michigan
Z-tree hit the nail on the head. Its all up to the judge!
The judge has to recognize the many minuses in the rule book and put a scratch on the paper. I see judges only scoring "checks", "strikes" and "non-produces". Very few "jumps" anymore. Plus we have a 5 min. "no hunt" rule. We shouldn't have to walk dogs into the briars.

A small number of hounds can run both formats. The rules are in place so that each type has their own. (even LP has minuses)

andy eichelberger
LGBC

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#23966 - 01/19/12 12:59 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: andy_ike]
jim tucker Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 27
Loc: south east indiana
I like a conservitive style dog with clean runnin. They let dogs get away with alot in pp at times just like some of the guys say better hope you get a judge that does not like to minus a dog. i have not seen your dog run i said the lp dogs i have seen are to rough on track for me and my likes. I like back in the day style pp dogs more than what goes on today sometimes in pp.lp used to cleaner back then to .dogs in pp were cleaner to back then.i like to stay in the past to much i guess. it all depends on the judge and what a guy like to run .To each there own like i said in the other post just my opion.

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#23971 - 01/19/12 02:22 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: jim tucker]
EARL LEASURE Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 187
Tucker, The judge should judge by PP rules if it is a PP hunt.And LP if it is a LP hunt.And not by the style of hound he he runs.Like I said before I run a hound that can be on the edge. But I judge by the PP rule book.And I like to think my hounds are not a style but a rabbit hound. So give them the plus or the minus Pts that they deserve. And I will still go take them hunting and that is what they were breed for.And Tucker I seen one of your hounds and I would say he was more then just a style to.
_________________________
(BRAISE HILL KENNELS 2012 H.O.F BEAGLER) JUST GOOD OLD RABBIT HOUND'S NUTTEN SPECIAL.





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#23973 - 01/19/12 11:14 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: EARL LEASURE]
billy Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: ohio
I have little pack dogs, my largest one is around 13". The rest are well under lol.

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