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#23974 - 01/19/12 02:16 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: billy]
Buddy WAll Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Oklahoma
Earl i would have to totally agree with you on the judging style. i've been picked up before ten minutes into the hunt and when i ask why i usually get some lame excuse but since i run little pack its always skirting. if a hound is in the lead running a rabbit and gets picked up for skirting whats he skirting? if he's going around briar patches and not thru them i could understand, other wise its getting the dog out cause what is it they say he's running to much rabbit??????? there's a gap in the rules that lets the judge bring back the hound he likes.

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#23977 - 01/19/12 03:58 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: billy]
Josh Jones Offline
Carpal Tunnel
**

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1004
Loc: AR
Ok I know you guys have rule books, but here are the minuses in PP. If a dog can run without getting into trouble with the minuses then run away. Honestly most hounds probably are guilty of quite a few of these over the course of an hour of running. Just have to have a little judgement. Really most of the minuses come from work in the check area. I have never read the LP rules, but I'm guessing they are a little less strict in the Check.

F. Scoring of Minus Points

If a hound opens and barks 3 times and no rabbit is produced within 4 minutes, the hound that opened first shall receive minus 10 points. If another hound jumps the rabbit or produces a rabbit within 4 minutes no minus points are given.

A. If a hound is not trailing, but is just barking and barks three or more times during a short time span, that hound shall receive minus 10 points for "pop-off" barking. He shall not be placed on the clock, or awarded a strike, unless he is working a track.


Any hound caught backtracking on a trail 50 feet or more shall receive 10 minus points. Definition of backtracking is when a hound is clearly running and barking in the opposite direction on a line that has already been run by a hound or hounds. Barking while returning to the point of loss is NOT backtracking.

Once the race has started it is expected that all hounds in the cast shall pursue the rabbit along its established line of flight. Any hound that leaves this line after it has been established shall receive minus 10 points. This also applies to the hound that leaves the line and attempts to get ahead of the pack or any hound that "skirts" difficult terrain. Note: if the hound passes other hounds, but is running the line, this hound is not minused 10 points. Note: At the beginning of the race quite often the hounds are scattered looking for game so the judge may, at the beginning of the race, request that handlers get their hounds in the race. There is no penalty for this. Note: Splits on a separate rabbit shall not be considered as leaving the pack. Note: A woven wire, hog wire, or similar type fence is not considered as difficult terrain.

All hounds must pack and stay in a pack "mode" until a check is made. Any hound that is disruptive in the check area and interferes with other hounds that are working the check area shall receive minus 10 points. Note: This rule is meant to apply to the hound that just runs around and barks within the check area, but makes no attempt to work the check.

Any hound that leaves the check area and is observed barking and pulling the other pack members away from the established check area shall receive minus 10 points.

Any hound that runs through the established check area, continually barking and leading the other hounds through the check area shall receive minus 10 points. Note: It is the intent of this rule to penalize the hound that continually overruns the check area and continues to bark. It is not the intent of the rule to penalize the hound that runs through the check area for a short distance, immediately stops barking when he realizes there is no scent, and returns to the check area to attempt to work out the check. It is also the intention of this rule to penalize the hounds that do not return to the point of loss on checks.

A hound that enters the check area, but makes no attempt to work the track shall receive minus 10 points. Note: It is the intent of this rule to penalize the hound that continually "feeds" off the work of the other hounds in the cast.

Any hound that enters the check area and leaves making no attempt to work out the check shall receive minus 10 points. Note: This is to penalize the hound that does not return to the check area and work on solving the check.

Any hound that slips out of the check area on the track refusing to bark until at least 50 feet from the other hounds will be minused 10 points. This is known as stealing the track or slipping the rabbit.

Any hound that does not run up with the pack will receive minus 10 points for barking and pulling any of the other hounds out of the check area.
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Get out there and judge. It's easy! HA!

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#23981 - 01/19/12 04:44 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Josh Jones]
EARL LEASURE Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 187
Josh, You are right about the check.But we have to realize that are hounds are not the same hounds PP started with. And I have never judge a cast that I could not pick them all up.So as judges we need to have that thing that a lot of people don't have "hound sense".
_________________________
(BRAISE HILL KENNELS 2012 H.O.F BEAGLER) JUST GOOD OLD RABBIT HOUND'S NUTTEN SPECIAL.





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#23982 - 01/19/12 04:47 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: EARL LEASURE]
Josh Jones Offline
Carpal Tunnel
**

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1004
Loc: AR
I know. That was the "little judgement" part. I do still think some people let hounds get away with too much in PP.


Edited by Josh Jones (01/19/12 04:58 PM)
_________________________
Get out there and judge. It's easy! HA!

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#23987 - 01/19/12 07:46 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Josh Jones]
jim tucker Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 27
Loc: south east indiana
thats what i am saying about what style of dog a guy likes when he is the judge. the guy that likes a rougher dog lets that style of dog do better on the paper.seems to me we see more and more harder going dogs and as long as judges let them stay on the ground and sometimes win they will keep coming to pp trials with harder going rougher dogs.

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#23988 - 01/19/12 09:38 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: jim tucker]
Chuck Terry Offline
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 356
Loc: GA
Without the minuses PP becoming LP with higher scores since the checks are shorter. If the judge does not know "harkening" from "skirting" and "winding" from "swinging". PP can become GDP. Judge by the rules in ALL formats and let that control what places and,eventually, the predominant type of hound entered. Just my opinion!
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Ramblings of a Beagler - Search: 9781624889356

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#23989 - 01/19/12 10:57 PM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Chuck Terry]
Buddy WAll Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Oklahoma
for those of us that are little packers but like running in the occasional pp hunt i personally would like for the pp judges to judge my dog not his blood line or his owner. i don't mind putting my hound in the truck if he's running rough thats what the rules are for. just don't like being sent to the truck cause i run another format or my dog is breed from little pack hounds. i'm sure alot of hounds come from both formats. i invite pp trialers to come to a lp hunt, from what i saw at the south regional they would do pretty good.

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#23990 - 01/20/12 12:28 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: billy]
billy Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: ohio
 Originally Posted By: billy
I have little pack dogs, my largest one is around 13". The rest are well under lol.


aw come on, no one laughed?

Sometimes its better to enjoy the trials and not take them too serious. Remember everyone has an opinion on how the judges should judge, not many actually judge. So unless you are willing to judge you should be thankful for the one who was.

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#23995 - 01/20/12 03:12 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: billy]
Willow Creek Kennel Offline
Carpal Tunnel
***

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 562
Loc: LAWRENCEBURG , KY
Why would anybody who runs Lp want to run PP ?????
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Shannon Howard
Lawrenceburg,Ky

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#23996 - 01/20/12 03:34 AM Re: little pack & progressive pack ? [Re: Willow Creek Kennel]
EARL LEASURE Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 187
Ok why would I not want to run PP,LP,or any other format that my hounds can compete in?


Edited by EARL LEASURE (01/20/12 03:34 AM)
_________________________
(BRAISE HILL KENNELS 2012 H.O.F BEAGLER) JUST GOOD OLD RABBIT HOUND'S NUTTEN SPECIAL.





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