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#27707 - 10/30/13 02:08 AM Re: what has happened to PP? [Re: BlackHandBeagles]
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 187
Let me start out by saying I am a hounds men first. I love PP and love to judge in PP. I have been reading all that has been posted on this issue. I like a hard hitting hound. But we should be minus a hound if he or she needs it. I have gave more minus this year then any before. And have had a guy that has been doing great with his hounds this year . Try to tell me his hound did not pull the pack past the line. And did not need to get that minus for pulling. I guess he thought I did have a back bone. Well you can guess how that went. I have all so said to a judge that he should have given my hound a minus when he didn't . There is alot of guys out there that think they can judge because they past a test and got a card. We need to help them out so they can under stand the rules. And know when they can and should give a hound a minus or not. We need to all so not judge a hound by what bloodline it is. And last time I looked PP runs by the same rules no matter what region it is . So we need to stop using that for a excuse why we need to or not to give a hound a minus.

#27708 - 10/30/13 01:42 PM Re: what has happened to PP? [Re: Gunsmoke]
SRBeavers Offline

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 70
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Gunsmoke
Have not been to a trial in years. Same questions now as when I quit going.

The dogs that were being run when we quit going would not have stayed on the ground 15 min when PP started. The dogs were Very close on the line and in the check area. To close for me.

If you will watch the judges judge like they like dogs to run. In AKC they use the same rules to run a walkie talkie trial as they do to run a Big Pack trial. All in the way the judge looks at the rules.

What is the answer? Who knows. Good luck.

Woodine made some great points. Getting everyone on same page will be hard. Different regions look at dogs differently.

Good luck to all of you.


Phil, Hope you are doing well. I thought the same thing as you. This has been going on for 15 years or longer. Those were the days when we would pull 50-60 dogs a day. Then that campaign to slow em down destroyed the number of entries.

My opinion as an outsider.....let the dogs run and everyone have fun. You are never going to get every club in the US on the same page. It will never happen. Approach trials like the casino...expect to lose and be happy if you win.

I thank the Lord on the 14th of every August that I never have to worry about this anymore.

PS. Joe and Terry...hope you guys are doing well.

Best to everyone.
Randy Beavers

Edited by SRBeavers (10/30/13 07:46 PM)

#27709 - 10/30/13 03:28 PM Re: what has happened to PP? [Re: Woodine]
Shawn Benefield Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 301
Loc: Arkansas
like this!!!
Originally Posted By: Woodine
Years ago, Dave Frazier said that when you throw out the minus section of the Progressive Pack rule book you are judging by Little Pack rules.

I attended a trial last winter and probably half of the hounds entered in the Open class were Little Pack hounds. They stayed on the ground and placed ahead of the Progressive Pack hounds. I can remember the time when they would have been headed back to the box within 20 minutes. Was it lack of knowledge of the rules? Was it fear of small attendance at the next hunt? Why and how did this happen???? One of the owners made the remark, "I brought my roughest hound to see if it would stay down." I never left the road during one cast and had 3 minuses on 2 hounds. Both hounds stayed down and one won the cast. Will I go back to this club in the future? If it is the ONLY hunt in the region and I won't take an Open Class dog. (Oops, there went attendance and club money.) If I want my Progressive Pack hounds to run with Little Pack hounds then I'll go to an advertised Little Pack hunt.

At the EMC I eavesdropped on a lot of conversations in the field and at the clubhouse. You know women do that so why think we won't at a field trial.
The number one complaint I overhead is Buddy Judging.
The second complaint was location of casts. Depending on which dogs are going back the hounds are sent to a thick area where the judge can't get in there and see the hounds work or an open area where the judge can see EVERYTHING.
The third complaint was selection of judges for the final casts.
The fourth complaint was inconsistency with the application of rules between judges.
The fifth complaint was judges discussing hound faults with other judges or beaglers. They object to judges saying Spot did this or that or Joe's green dog does this.

Attendance was down at the EMC and at most of the club hunts. It's not due to the economy. Many beaglers have figured out it is more fun to stay at home, run their hounds for as long as they want, save the cost of entry fees and at the end of the day they are happy not mad at the outcome of the hunt.

Big Lakes
"Dora the Explorer"

#27730 - 11/11/13 07:32 PM Re: what has happened to PP? [Re: BlackHandBeagles]
Josh Jones Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1004
Loc: AR
I have to work all week, so I like to rabbit hunt on Sat. That's the story with a bunch.
Get out there and judge. It's easy! HA!

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